We (r/Latin, r/AncientGreek, r/Classics, r/pompeii—I mod the Latin subreddit. I’m u/NasusSyrae on Reddit.) are going dark with thousands of other subs to boycott Reddit’s money grab that will disable third party apps and other tools, including accessibility apps that many depend on to access Reddit, that rely on their API. These subreddits will be private for at least 48 hours. More details on how this is affecting people and how badly Reddit has mishandled this can be found in this disaster of a thread from Friday, 6/9.
I will post updates to this thread, starting by 6/15 if nothing has changed on Reddit’s end.
6/12 update: The subreddits are now dark. If you need help with Latin, Ancient Greek, or Classics, see these links.
6/14 update: Pursuant to the Reddit CEO’s comments about waiting this out, getting back to business, and pushing on with his ill-advised plans to kill all third party apps, mod tools, and accessibility tools, the Classics-sphere on Reddit will be dark indefinitely. We will update here at the end of June or sooner of there is news.
6/18 update: The Ancient Greek subreddit’s resources and the Gdoc that functioned as the Latin subreddit’s resources wiki have been added here: https://linktr.ee/rlatin
6/19 update: Reddit hasn’t contacted the moderators of r/Latin yet about forcing us to do their bidding, but if you check out www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord, you can see that subreddits are being forced to reopen regardless of what the mods or community have decided. You’ll also see a lot if subs engaging in “malicious compliance.” I’m not sure how effective that is in this case, and while I can see how it’s funny, it’s a bit puerile, and I don’t have the energy for it.
Also, because this link is up on the “we’re private” notification on Reddit, some anons have started posting here to attack the mods, as Reddit would like you to do so they can get back to making as revenue off us and selling our data. I’m very dubious that these are the more active subreddit members or even people who have commented a single time.
As I’ve commented below, the subreddit will come back, but it might just have a different mod team in whole or in part. I think for a lot of communities, Reddit has manipulated the mods who really do like the “mod power,” into staying open simply by threatening to remove them. Well, no one who mods this subreddit particularly cares about just being in charge to have mod power, which I suppose makes for a more healthy community, but it also makes us not susceptible to this type of threat.
What we care about most is that resources are available to you and that you can connect with other Latinists. That can still happen right now with Reddit, and we encourage you to get off Reddit and do that in the spaces that we’ve linked—or anywhere else you know of. There’s even a ton of groups on The Facebook.
At any rate, if you have some kind of Latin emergency or really need to talk to a mod, you can DM me on Reddit or chat with me. I’ll recognize your name if you are an active participant on the subreddit. Some of you also know how to find me on Discord, and that is fine as well. But, I’m not really interested in battling the voices of a bunch of anons who come on here to tee off at mods because that’s what Reddit wants them to do and it’s cool to mock Reddit mods. It’s just not something I’m interested in doing.
Reddit hasn’t contacted the moderators of r/Latin yet about forcing us to do their bidding, but if you check out www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord, you can see that subreddits are being forced to reopen regardless of what the mods or community have decided. You’ll also see a lot if subs engaging in “malicious compliance.” I’m not sure how effective that is in this case, and while I can see how it’s funny, it’s a bit puerile, and I don’t have the energy for it.
Also, because this link is up on the “we’re private” notification on Reddit, some anons have started posting here to attack the mods, as Reddit would like you to do so they can get back to making as revenue off us and selling our data. I’m very dubious that these are the more active subreddit members or even people who have commented a single time.
As I’ve commented below, the subreddit will come back, but it might just have a different mod team in whole or in part. I think for a lot of communities, Reddit has manipulated the mods who really do like the “mod power,” into staying open simply by threatening to remove them. Well, no one who mods this subreddit particularly cares about just being in charge to have mod power, which I suppose makes for a more healthy community, but it also makes us not susceptible to this type of threat.
What we care about most is that resources are available to you and that you can connect with other Latinists. That can still happen right now with Reddit, and we encourage you to get off Reddit and do that in the spaces that we’ve linked—or anywhere else you know of. There’s even a ton of groups on The Facebook.
At any rate, if you have some kind of Latin emergency or really need to talk to a mod, you can DM me on Reddit or chat with me. I’ll recognize your name if you are an active participant on the subreddit. Some of you also know how to find me on Discord, and that is fine as well. But, I’m not really interested in battling the voices of a bunch of anons who come on here to tee off at mods because that’s what Reddit wants them to do and it’s cool to mock Reddit mods. It’s just not something I’m interested in doing.
Final update, 6/21: Reddit contacted me to force me to open a dead subreddit that I own, r/Locutorium. According to many other mods who mod a larger subreddit and also have a tiny private subreddit or derelict subreddit like I did, Reddit has been using these little subreddits and they fact they are private or NSFW to revoke their mod privileges entirely. Reddit has also been sacking entire mod teams, even those who are running their communities in a manner in which their community has voted for. See r/ModCoord for all the mess if you want to. I’m not going to moderate or generate content (and yes, the r/Latin mods are always in the top 10 content generators for a sub) for a company that is flagrantly abusing its volunteer moderators and has weaponized their communities against them. As such, I (u/NasusSyrae) have resigned as a moderator for r/Latin after five years. I think the other mods, though they haven’t been strenuously advocating for it, are of a mind to open back up. They all supported the protest initially and up to this point. They may do as they wish now. r/Classics has already opened.
Most of our posts on r/Latin are from people seeking help with the Latin language. Here are some alternative places with strong communities and moderation where you can ask similar questions as you would on r/Latin: https://linktr.ee/rlatin
6/14 update: Pursuant to the Reddit CEO’s comments about waiting this out, getting back to business, and pushing on with his ill-advised plans to kill all third party apps, mod tools, and accessibility tools, the Classics-sphere on Reddit will be dark indefinitely. We will update here at the end of June or sooner of there is news.
Please consider reversing this decision. As a member of the classics community, I don't recall being allowed to vote on this decision. I understand this was done with noble intentions, but this will only punish regular users.
In the past 48 hours, Reddit has referred nearly every policy about moderator independence, Spez has been giving increasingly insulting and desperate sounding interviews to the press, and now they are forcibly reopening subreddits and pitting mods against other mods.
Do you know what this means? It means it’s working. It means they are nervous. You don’t stop your action when management is nervous.
It’s been five days. I’ve been doing this for you for five years. Please go use one of the Discord servers or latindiscussion.org. The exact same level of community and resources are available there. You’ll be OK a bit longer.
The big Latin server on the link tree in this post has the largest AG community that we know of on Discord. Do you have another link to another server?
Hey I'm looking for the athenanze italian textbook pdf with English translation. It was on reddit I think. Do you know any way I can access it? I'm struggling with chapter 7
Hi, thanks so for your contributions! Can you tell me where I can find this link tree with the link to the main Latin Discord server? I'm using Chrome browser and don't see any link tree on this post.
Please show your Reddit account so we can see how active you are on the subreddit before we consider what you are saying.
Also, it’s not normal to force people to run the forums they’ve built. I’ve never seen it happen anywhere else online. And I’ve been on the internet the entire time.
Furthermore, voting is theater on Reddit. See r/modcoord. Reddit has forced many subreddits back online that have voted to stay closed. They are also forcing subreddits back to SFW who voted to go NSFW.
What will probably happen here is some or all of the mod team will resign. The subreddit will eventually reopen, but I don’t know for sure who will mod it and what it will look like, but you’ll get it back.
Also, be wary of being emotionally manipulated by corporations. Like when Reddit tells you all they care about is community or your job says you you are family. They want to make money off of you. It’s that simple. That’s why Reddit corporate is encouraging you to attack its moderators. It’s why they don’t want subreddits NSFW--it knocks them down in Google search.
But yes, every thing you could do or ask for on Reddit is available on Discord or latindiscussion.org. So you have community in those places. Please take advantage of that in the meantime.
i want you to realize that 99% of people understand that the api situation is shitty but in the end, no one gives a shit. This is a selfish act and all you are doing is hindering the learning of latin and preventing people from talking about their passion.
If you know some more about me, hopefully you will understand that your claim that I'm "hindering anyone from learning Latin" is laughable. 1) I was a classroom Latin teacher for a decade, teaching thousands of students 2) After I became too disabled to teach in the classroom due to cancer, I spent thousands of hours making places online and gather resources for people to learn Latin.
So, those places I'm linking in the linktree for people to ask questions as an alternative? Discord servers with thousands of people there for you to ask questions of if you really want to learn? Not only did I organize and start moderating the derelict Latin server five years ago, along with Unbrutal, but I also organized or established those places. That LLPSI server? That's me. There are like 5,000+ people there. Go talk to them. Go learn. The massive resource document that Unbrutal and I put together, go look at it. Go learn something from our hundreds of hours of work instead of coming to me with this uninformed petulance.
I said I'm disabled. Go do some research about how this API change is affecting disabled people. (I've already done it for you in the links above.) Google how much money Facebook pays for moderation and get some inkling of how many hundreds of millions of dollars Reddit saves by having nearly all their moderation done by volunteers. Then, perhaps you will begin to understand how exploitative that relationship can feel when they get rid of the tools we use to make our jobs easier that they couldn't be arsed to develop themselves in some cash grab for an imminent IPO.
The absolute entitled gall of you to say that any moderator who volunteers the amount of time we have time is selfish, but then to say it to us in the educational community who aren't only mods but resources who have invested decades in our own education, who are always there sharing it, helping people and answers questions every day, going well beyond just "moderating"? That is just risible.
I thank you. You and others like you make this community a truly amazing place to be. When I first started studying Latin less than a year ago and reached out online, I couldn't believe how welcoming and generous you all have been. You all genuinely want to help and see us succeed. Thank you for the wonderful videos, for the lists of resources, for the links to great sites, for your many suggestions, etc etc etc. Because of you, I now am devoted to Ovid and excited about one day being able to read him in the original! How awesome is that? I appreciate you and this community. I see what you give and I thank you so much for being here and sharing your experience, education, time, and yourself for us.
Thank you for your kind words! The purpose of the community really is to primarily help learners like yourself. I'm glad we've at least succeeded in that to some extent.
and I want YOU to realize that 99% of ppl appreciate, really appreciate what Lupus Alatus has done, is doing, and will always do for our Latin Community.
You, the moderators, decided to blackout without consulting us, the users. This is a typical totalitarian move.
In justifying your decision, you point to the enormous amount of volunteer work you have done. But the word 'voluntarily' is key - no one forced you to do it! However, not only did you contribute, but all the users did as well (without being consulted about your blackout decision).
This is not exclusively your domain; it belongs to us, the users, as well!
Therefore, I am calling for a vote on whether to proceed with the blackout or not!
Anton, please show your Reddit account so we can see how active you are on the subreddit before we consider what you are saying.
Also, it’s not normal to force people to run the forums they’ve built. I’ve never seen it happen anywhere else online. And I’ve been on the internet the entire time.
Furthermore, voting is theater on Reddit. See r/modcoord. Reddit has forced many subreddits back online that have voted to stay closed. They are also forcing subreddits back to SFW who voted to go NSFW.
What will probably happen here is some or all of the mod team will resign. The subreddit will eventually reopen, but I don’t know for sure who will mod it and what it will look like, but you’ll get it back.
Also, be wary of being emotionally manipulated by corporations. Like when Reddit tells you all they care about is community or your job says you you are family. They want to make money off of you. It’s that simple. That’s why Reddit corporate is encouraging you to attack its moderators. It’s why they don’t want subreddits NSFW--it knocks them down in Google search.
But yes, every thing you could do or ask for on Reddit is available on Discord or latindiscussion.com. So you have community in those places. Please take advantage of that in the meantime.
As the link you posted for the ModCoord subreddit:
"If you need to take time to poll your users to see if they're on-board, do so - consensus is important".
I would open it to private and ask the community if going indefinite is okay--as Reddit is preparing to remove subreddit moderators if they are "taking a subreddit hostage". This way reddit has no recourse with swapping the mods.
They are doing it anyway as we speak with communities that have voted on it. They don't care. They've forced r/piracy back within the past couple hours. I'll post an update today on where the mod team is at, but basically, we aren't going to be forced to volunteer our time, after already helping make them millions of dollars, under whatever circumstances Reddit sees fit.
I also strongly believe that mods like r/nba and r/piracy and similar larger subreddits who can be forced back into working for free by threats of removing their power are exactly the type of mods who get memed on and who you don't want modding. I think it's still a load of bull that Reddit has done that to them though.
This has never been a power thing for any of us. We do it because most of us are or have been teachers and we care about sharing information with others. Fortunately for you, that information is readily available in other places, as people with similar levels of expertise (except for maybe KH about Petrarch and L about inscriptions :)).
But I'm not they type of person who is gonna be forced to do this by Reddit or anyone else on their terms after what I've done in the past five years. It's as if Twitter comes to you and says they'll take your handle or Wordpress your domain if you don't make content for them, but it's a lot worse than that even because of how many hundreds of millions Reddit makes off volunteer moderation.
Most of our posts on r/Latin are from people seeking help with the Latin language. Here are some alternative places with strong communities and moderation where you can ask similar questions as you would on r/Latin: https://linktr.ee/rlatin
6/14 update: Pursuant to the Reddit CEO’s comments about waiting this out, getting back to business, and pushing on with his ill-advised plans to kill all third party apps, mod tools, and accessibility tools, the Classics-sphere on Reddit will be dark indefinitely. We will update here at the end of June or sooner of there is news.
CEO’s reaction to mod protest:
https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/13/23759559/reddit-internal-memo-api-pricing-changes-steve-huffman
Other subreddits staying dark indefinitely:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/148ks6u/indefinite_blackout_next_steps_polling_your/
Please consider reversing this decision. As a member of the classics community, I don't recall being allowed to vote on this decision. I understand this was done with noble intentions, but this will only punish regular users.
In the past 48 hours, Reddit has referred nearly every policy about moderator independence, Spez has been giving increasingly insulting and desperate sounding interviews to the press, and now they are forcibly reopening subreddits and pitting mods against other mods.
Do you know what this means? It means it’s working. It means they are nervous. You don’t stop your action when management is nervous.
It’s been five days. I’ve been doing this for you for five years. Please go use one of the Discord servers or latindiscussion.org. The exact same level of community and resources are available there. You’ll be OK a bit longer.
Could you link a discord server in the subreddit announcement for r/AncientGreek?
The big Latin server on the link tree in this post has the largest AG community that we know of on Discord. Do you have another link to another server?
Even though r/Latin is about the only subreddit I use I support the decision, thank you for holding the line.
Thanks, Matt! It will come back in some form, I'm sure!
Hey I'm looking for the athenanze italian textbook pdf with English translation. It was on reddit I think. Do you know any way I can access it? I'm struggling with chapter 7
Try the link to the main Latin Discord server on that linktr.ee. There is a large community of Greek learners there. Someone will help you.
Hi, thanks so for your contributions! Can you tell me where I can find this link tree with the link to the main Latin Discord server? I'm using Chrome browser and don't see any link tree on this post.
Sure! It’s up above in the post too, but here’s the link: https://linktr.ee/rlatin
spez isnt gonna give in. most other supposedly "permanently blacked out" hack unprivated. please just reopen the subreddit
Please show your Reddit account so we can see how active you are on the subreddit before we consider what you are saying.
Also, it’s not normal to force people to run the forums they’ve built. I’ve never seen it happen anywhere else online. And I’ve been on the internet the entire time.
Furthermore, voting is theater on Reddit. See r/modcoord. Reddit has forced many subreddits back online that have voted to stay closed. They are also forcing subreddits back to SFW who voted to go NSFW.
What will probably happen here is some or all of the mod team will resign. The subreddit will eventually reopen, but I don’t know for sure who will mod it and what it will look like, but you’ll get it back.
Also, be wary of being emotionally manipulated by corporations. Like when Reddit tells you all they care about is community or your job says you you are family. They want to make money off of you. It’s that simple. That’s why Reddit corporate is encouraging you to attack its moderators. It’s why they don’t want subreddits NSFW--it knocks them down in Google search.
But yes, every thing you could do or ask for on Reddit is available on Discord or latindiscussion.org. So you have community in those places. Please take advantage of that in the meantime.
i want you to realize that 99% of people understand that the api situation is shitty but in the end, no one gives a shit. This is a selfish act and all you are doing is hindering the learning of latin and preventing people from talking about their passion.
If you know some more about me, hopefully you will understand that your claim that I'm "hindering anyone from learning Latin" is laughable. 1) I was a classroom Latin teacher for a decade, teaching thousands of students 2) After I became too disabled to teach in the classroom due to cancer, I spent thousands of hours making places online and gather resources for people to learn Latin.
So, those places I'm linking in the linktree for people to ask questions as an alternative? Discord servers with thousands of people there for you to ask questions of if you really want to learn? Not only did I organize and start moderating the derelict Latin server five years ago, along with Unbrutal, but I also organized or established those places. That LLPSI server? That's me. There are like 5,000+ people there. Go talk to them. Go learn. The massive resource document that Unbrutal and I put together, go look at it. Go learn something from our hundreds of hours of work instead of coming to me with this uninformed petulance.
I said I'm disabled. Go do some research about how this API change is affecting disabled people. (I've already done it for you in the links above.) Google how much money Facebook pays for moderation and get some inkling of how many hundreds of millions of dollars Reddit saves by having nearly all their moderation done by volunteers. Then, perhaps you will begin to understand how exploitative that relationship can feel when they get rid of the tools we use to make our jobs easier that they couldn't be arsed to develop themselves in some cash grab for an imminent IPO.
The absolute entitled gall of you to say that any moderator who volunteers the amount of time we have time is selfish, but then to say it to us in the educational community who aren't only mods but resources who have invested decades in our own education, who are always there sharing it, helping people and answers questions every day, going well beyond just "moderating"? That is just risible.
I thank you. You and others like you make this community a truly amazing place to be. When I first started studying Latin less than a year ago and reached out online, I couldn't believe how welcoming and generous you all have been. You all genuinely want to help and see us succeed. Thank you for the wonderful videos, for the lists of resources, for the links to great sites, for your many suggestions, etc etc etc. Because of you, I now am devoted to Ovid and excited about one day being able to read him in the original! How awesome is that? I appreciate you and this community. I see what you give and I thank you so much for being here and sharing your experience, education, time, and yourself for us.
Thank you for your kind words! The purpose of the community really is to primarily help learners like yourself. I'm glad we've at least succeeded in that to some extent.
and I want YOU to realize that 99% of ppl appreciate, really appreciate what Lupus Alatus has done, is doing, and will always do for our Latin Community.
Thank you! Fortunately for us, because of the way this community is, it doesn't really feel like a thankless job like a lot of online moderation.
You, the moderators, decided to blackout without consulting us, the users. This is a typical totalitarian move.
In justifying your decision, you point to the enormous amount of volunteer work you have done. But the word 'voluntarily' is key - no one forced you to do it! However, not only did you contribute, but all the users did as well (without being consulted about your blackout decision).
This is not exclusively your domain; it belongs to us, the users, as well!
Therefore, I am calling for a vote on whether to proceed with the blackout or not!
Anton, please show your Reddit account so we can see how active you are on the subreddit before we consider what you are saying.
Also, it’s not normal to force people to run the forums they’ve built. I’ve never seen it happen anywhere else online. And I’ve been on the internet the entire time.
Furthermore, voting is theater on Reddit. See r/modcoord. Reddit has forced many subreddits back online that have voted to stay closed. They are also forcing subreddits back to SFW who voted to go NSFW.
What will probably happen here is some or all of the mod team will resign. The subreddit will eventually reopen, but I don’t know for sure who will mod it and what it will look like, but you’ll get it back.
Also, be wary of being emotionally manipulated by corporations. Like when Reddit tells you all they care about is community or your job says you you are family. They want to make money off of you. It’s that simple. That’s why Reddit corporate is encouraging you to attack its moderators. It’s why they don’t want subreddits NSFW--it knocks them down in Google search.
But yes, every thing you could do or ask for on Reddit is available on Discord or latindiscussion.com. So you have community in those places. Please take advantage of that in the meantime.
this is really lame dude.
As the link you posted for the ModCoord subreddit:
"If you need to take time to poll your users to see if they're on-board, do so - consensus is important".
I would open it to private and ask the community if going indefinite is okay--as Reddit is preparing to remove subreddit moderators if they are "taking a subreddit hostage". This way reddit has no recourse with swapping the mods.
They are doing it anyway as we speak with communities that have voted on it. They don't care. They've forced r/piracy back within the past couple hours. I'll post an update today on where the mod team is at, but basically, we aren't going to be forced to volunteer our time, after already helping make them millions of dollars, under whatever circumstances Reddit sees fit.
I also strongly believe that mods like r/nba and r/piracy and similar larger subreddits who can be forced back into working for free by threats of removing their power are exactly the type of mods who get memed on and who you don't want modding. I think it's still a load of bull that Reddit has done that to them though.
This has never been a power thing for any of us. We do it because most of us are or have been teachers and we care about sharing information with others. Fortunately for you, that information is readily available in other places, as people with similar levels of expertise (except for maybe KH about Petrarch and L about inscriptions :)).
But I'm not they type of person who is gonna be forced to do this by Reddit or anyone else on their terms after what I've done in the past five years. It's as if Twitter comes to you and says they'll take your handle or Wordpress your domain if you don't make content for them, but it's a lot worse than that even because of how many hundreds of millions Reddit makes off volunteer moderation.
Here is r/nba's thread on it as an example of Reddit admin's manipulation of their moderation team with threats, overriding their community vote: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/14bxljj/the_return_of_rnba_and_an_update_on_the_reddit/?sort=new